(Un)sicherheit in der Zeitenwende

Transkript: Verteuerung des Lebens

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Robert Dorschel
Use coloquist in a corporate.
My number's over.
Beginning for in the.
As a is it so high to earn,
North London underscore.
That's freedom
We are really really excited to have you with us today Asia is a leading economist at the OACD cheers accomplished the PHD and economics at.
Distinguished expert in energy and resource economics, maco economics, and fiscal policy. Asia, thanks so much for being with us today.
I was taking guests this Yan Sudocom,
Is expert in in the in various fields among them labor market effects on globalization and digitalization as well as international trade.
And I think to introduce yens one also has to say that he's he's a very highly sought expert by the media as well as range of political actors and institutions so yeah yens we are also very grateful that you took the time to be here today.
Now just some words about the structure of today's event in the first part we will hear 210 minute presentations by Asia and Yens.
After this first part we will then move into a discussion
Where we will also draw our Nicola Bun. She's the head of the balloon center of the OCD as well as ladder flasher with a policy analyst at the OCD and together with these four
Speakers we will then be delving into a first discussion of of the rising cost of living and it's social and economic implications
After this first round of discussion then in the last 20 minutes we will open around and we very much look forward to hearing all of your voices you also ideally invited to use the chat during the session,
Unfortunately we won't be able to address every question that comes up in the chat or every question that that you have.
But I can assure you that no questions, no comments are lost. These are very important for us in the preparation of the upcoming events. So, please feel free to share.
And now without further ado Asia we are very excited to hear your presentation or your your brief talk and the floor is yours.
Assia Elgouacem
Thank you very much Robert for the introduction and thank you so much for inviting me to today's coloquine on this very important topic
Can that we're, you know, and the issues that we're still grappling with today.
Before the the war we were already having supply tensions on energy in many commodities with notably
Cold and gas prices jumping to all time high taking electricity prices with them
Factors on both supply and demand side could explain we're staying on the same yes
Could explain this sharp price increases including years of low investment in both fossil fuels and in clean energy.
We also had Loga natural gas inventory levels due to reductions in natural gas spot delivery by Russia and a strong demand recovery in the aftermath of the COVID-19 sums. There were other,
Determines of these price rises such as
And favorable weather.
But essentially all these tensions actually resulted in.
For instance an eight folding increase in natural gas prices since 2020.
Now the war is exacerbating the extensions and if we consider doing fact of the increase in commodity prices in the first 3 weeks after war and add to this the increase in interest rates
We find that the impact on GDP and inflation to be not negligible.
But it is clear that the war will result in substantial near term drag on global growth and significantly stronger inflationary pressures
Illustrative simulations suggest that global growth could be reduced by over one percentage point and global inflation raised by.
Close to two and a half percentage points in the first year after the
Start of the conflict for full disclosure these estimates are based
Persist for at least 1 year and include a deep recession in Russia
And so the substantial economic cost of the consulate then elevated in certainty add
And households will bear the brunt of the cost as they spend the highest share of their incomes on energy and food as shown in the left hand side panel
Governments had already
Energy price increases seen before the start of the war.
We saw a lot of activity and cute acute threeQ four of 2021 and disc continues because of the persistent crisis
So that the measures are now being strengthened further
The total at least 120 1 billion US dollars.
So this is very much a lower bound because we don't have estimates for all so the fiscal cost has not been quantified for all measures.
And what we see that support measures so far, fall under two categories, one is what we consider income support. So, these include lumps, some transfers to consumers, and the other categories price support measures which lower the effective energy price paid by consumers.
Both types of measures can be targeted through means testing or benefit only certain group of categories of consumers based on for instance their energy consumptions and
And other criteria. What we find is that about half of the measures provided income support.
One of energy bill rebates expansion of means tested transfers to wider population or an increase in the transfer the size of the transfers themselves and most of these income support measures are targeted.
Conversely price support measures that come in the form of exercise tax or VAT reductions or exemptions the remover removal of energy a renewable energy fees
And reduce price or regulated energy prices are in large part non targeted.
What we know is that in the rum of support measures they're not all created equal and what I mean by that is that they're not all efficient and effective at helping vulnerable consumers and do not have the same.
So temporary means tested launch some transfers for instance
And thereby they can encourage energy savings and fuel switching while providing financial lifeline to consumers that needed the most so these usually they are considered best practice
Given that such targeted interventions rely on government social
They can be difficult to administer and also they can miss out on some vulnerable parts of the population.
Price controls where the price of energy is fixed or kept at a lower level than the market price are ill suited to efficiently deliver help
To energy consumers. While they are simpler to introduce.
They tend to be untargeted benefiting large energy consumers who often have high income and also they tend to the store market functioning.
So as far as I feel support suffers from the consequences of the ongoing war in Ukraine the energy transition has become an issue of energy security
And intertwined with the challenge of climate
Meditation, climate change meditation,
And only transitory.
To consumers. So, as we see in the figure that most of these measures actually are linked to the consumption and the production of fossil fuels.
To help vulnerable households and firms should not hamper progress to towards the carbonization so design matters
And quite contrary energy policies can help
This now aligned goals of nuts oh emissions and energy independence,
Fry sharks and even shortages.
A strategic clean energy transition should aim to reduce vulnerabilities along the way and be coupled with investment in innovation to develop the technologies needed
For net oh. And with this I conclude my presentation and past the floor to Robert.
Robert Dorschel
Thank you Asia for this fascinating talk. Thanks so much. I think it was really a lot to think about and let really a lot of facts, information, and a lotuses that's great. Now, yes. I'm heading yeah, just giving the words to you.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Jens Südekum
Well, good morning, everyone. Thanks for for having me. And I think that that fits very well because
Lots of the things that I plan to say are very much in line with what SES just said but I'm gonna start with few figures the numbers but with the German perspective.
International evidence
What we're having right now is truly dramatic. So this is the most recent forecast for Germany from the institutes last week,
In 2022 will be six. One% and that would be the highest inflation rate in 40 years.
Where's it coming from? Is it?
Only a Putin inflation just driven by the war and energy prices. Well, yes and no, while obviously, I mean, energy is the most important driver of the price increases but it's not only energy.
So first let me show you this slide which is produce a prices so not basic what you pay in the stores but basically the prices that that firms basically have when we're telling to other friends along the value chain
So, there are things are even more dramatic. So, this is numbers from I think 2 days ago and produce a prices. I up 30%.
Year on year in March 2022. So that's the highest ever. Basically since the status recorded.
But not only energy, it's basically the supply chain pensions. After the pandemic,
Hypothetical scenario,
These supplies change tensions were slowly evaporating over time so that basically ships from China with would start arriving and so forth and like slowly these tensions would be kind of.
Don't play but that's not the case anymore. First of all, because of the war, the energy, and then secondly, I think one also has to keep in mind.
The problems we're facing in China, right? With oh COVID policy, which basically,
This this rap supply chain so ships that should be already on the way to Europe supply goods they are not on their way so basically we're having new supplies attentions coming up with a few weeks and all of that basically adds to
Pleasures and producer prices and slowly they will be passed on to consumer prices
May you still be like a optimistic.
Foremost of course energy, gas bills,
Price increases that they show up across the board for all sorts of goods so basically almost half of the goods in the consumer basket.
Already have price increases above three%,
And so well, as I said, it's already a dramatic situation.
Hey basically.
Or month.
Europe has decided not to do that.
Was a very important factor and was very skeptical about you know these these type of embargos. If we were to oppose it then,
Inflation wouldn't stop at six. One%, right? So, these are basically projections of what the full and bargain would mean for oil and gas prices and as you see, I mean, gas prices would roughly double.
If we were to impose an environment quickly oil prices would more than double and as you can imagine I mean that would.
Dramatically effect.
GDP. I mean, there's discussion about what dramatic means. Let's say, if a drop of five% GDP, if you would call that dramatic or not,
I think I would call it dramatic especially because the projections of this five% decrease GDP sort of assume optimal policy response
I both in terms of physical policy and also turns off managing the shortages of fossil fuels that would pop up right?
Policy would not react to me then the shock could be much more dramatic than these five%.
We're looking at inflation.
So, all of that is long story short, pretty dramatic. And my last slide would be, okay, what to do about it? And yeah, very much agree with us, yeah.
What we certainly would not want to do is to impose any sort of price caps, right?
Be it for fuel, be it for gas. Simply because if we move to that embargo scenario, it's simply not possible, right? Because people have.
Physical shortage of energy. So, there's no way the government can basically make a promise that well, okay, you can consume gas or fuel at a guarantee price. It's just not possible to do that anymore.
At the moment we're not facing physical shortages because we're having a positive bargain yet but.
I mean with oil it's an open secret that we're moving into that direction and then frankly it's so possible to assure any sort of price caps okay,
Well, some people look at the ECB. And say, okay, we're having,
The ECB keeps the interest rated oh%,
Where we're basing already.
Oh had to be basically decrease significantly because we were all kind of expecting that we'll have a strong recovery after the pandemic now this is basically shifted into the future because of the wall,
So it's sort of a recessionary or stapulationary scenario and in such a scenario right an interest rate hike.
I think would be the the wrong medicine, right? Because we're not facing a dementia of inflation like in the US, in the US, inflation,
Has sort of different characteristics than in Europe there is much more demand driven coming from basically a very very sizable stimulus package right in Europe the inflation is.
At least to my perspective.
Are the wrong let's for the problem we're facing right and they would basically hit the same groups.
That are already hammered by the price increases as your talked about that.
Would be a hit,
My industry takes basically making the recession stronger and lead you to unemployment. I mean, you can imagine who will who will be hammered by those problems. So, basically, I'm skeptical that the.
I mean they can normalize.
Ensure markets that if we're moving into a wage price spiral like many commentators kind of fear,
That the ECB is that in that case ready to to act right also to anchor inflation expectations.
But I think at the moment the actor who has two basically do something about the situation's fiscal policy is governments.
Support measures for low incoming medium income families.
That basically low income middle income families.
Pretty much like with AA pandemic argue that we have to learn to live with the virus now we kinda have to learn to live with inflation this for a while.
And that requires
Short story in my the discussion we had in the German case right I mean one party from the coalition strongly was in favor of price caps
Like basically a price cap on fuels and are now also basically a reimbursement for energy costs for firms.
So I'm not going to say which party it was but you all know it anyway. So this is the completely the wrong way to go but.
It's a coalition. Government. So, basically,
You had to give that party something and so basically that's entered the package as a sort of a compromise but I think that was a totally wrong decision.
And you could do it like a gross payment and then basically make a textible income so that high income high income households pay tax on it and effectively have
So you think that would be simple and easy but Asia mentioned already it's.
It's it's not, right? It's very hard to administer. And there's no such tool in Germany yet. So, there's no way.
How the government can just hand out cash transfers to the entire population.
When you would think we would we should have instrument like that because it would also be part of climate policies because there's also part of the
Package you would want to introduce, right? So, I have COtwo prices and then they see take the text proceeds and just hand them hand them out in a lump some fashion.
It's sold trivia but it turns out it's not, right? So, therefore,
Basically as a top of a wages so it's better than nothing but
It's not the perfect tool. So, I would strongly urge the government to use the time because the the support packages that we have seen already will not be the last ones.
So, if we go for the environment, if inflation will increase even further, we will see further support packages so they should use the time to finally.
So, it's all going to be very expensive for the government. So, I see no scenario in which we could return.
To the deathbreak in 2023 I I just see no way and I think slowly even the FDP and the finance minister will have to realize this
So for now in the short term we have to do it by that financing but don't forever so I think we can discuss this.
Basically I think in the medium to long term we have to.
Text increases to basically.
Pay for for these type of support measures that are indispensable at the moment. So let me leave it here. Thank you very much for your attention and I look forward to the discussion.
Robert Dorschel
Thank you so much Yens. Also very fascinating talk. Er Gara's really a nice really broad perspective. And yeah now we will
Dive into the discussion right away. I would love to to bring in Nikola, Nicola Band, be great to hear your perspective. Yes and usher have talked a lot about the rise, the shop, rise, and energy prizes. And yeah in response we have heard many countries are providing relief.
Now Asia and and Yance if if I understand them correctly they are both skeptical towards price caps they are skeptical towards interest rates
Increasing the interest rates, and instead, advocate for targeted compensation, for low income and middle income, families households,
What is your perspective? Do you have a question for them to or what is your take.
Nicola Brandt
Yeah thank you very much and thank you to Yens and ask you all for this really.
I have more question or reflection some wondering whether in a way you're not making things the way we're discussing this in place tell them.
In a very.
And then.
To make a few points here in October.
Do not.
So what Asia was talking about.
There's no gas so in a way giving people numb some transfer
Help they continue.
What's going to happen there? Some hearts are not available. Maybe you can substitute them at.
And yeah.
We haven't talked about some food.
Which from the front.
But what is probably much more. We haven't talked about this. What does it mean to know what income countries both.
So an energy.
Transfer transfers to large part of the.
My question, my point, my reflection is, isn't the problem with this? Much bigger than we are admitted to our sounds when we discussing this.
Do we really answer this.
Robert Dorschel
Yeah thank you baby I say you want to start and then yens.
Assia Elgouacem
So yes.
There are gonna be costs it's gonna be a costly,
Yeah government finances have already been strained because of the pandemic and now they're going to have to bear the cost of the war especially in Europe
So yes there it's I I think we need to
Be honest with ourselves and say.
We're going to everybody's going to bare the cost.
By designing support measures in an efficient cost efficient way,
Current and future cost for governments. The reason why we really don't like price controls is because they,
Blurred the price signal so.
Right? Which means that they're going to maintain, they're demand for energy and for food of course.
At the same level as before and so,
Which further exacerbates the supply shortages,
Compensate them for
Guarantee that the government provides to these energy producers,
And and further ascerating the problem. So, by designing support measures given the constraints that we have of course in a smart way we can
Try to minimize the cost that are linked to
But of course it's gonna be costly and like yeah instead you know
It's we you know governments are grappling like how do we finance it so for instance governments are even going so far as proposing taxes on windfold profits that are currently.
Benefiting some energy producers because right now
Low cost producers such as renewable energy producers cool producers also oil and gas companies are racking in a lot of money due to these high prices and so maybe there is a way to to try to get some of these rents from this producers
To finance some of the conversation measures so this is one thing that has been put on the table is it good or not,
It's up to debate and discussion. There has also been proposals to tax very high income,
Besides the whole that financing which already you know that levels are high so so we're really trying to see everything and and and it's difficult. We cannot deny it.
Robert Dorschel
Thank you. Yeah, maybe ends. You want to follow up?
Jens Südekum
I agree with Nicola the problem is much bigger than.
What would a phone made before my words because I was just focusing on the design of domestic support packages okay and even there it's pretty difficult but on the global scale I mean it's even more dire what what we're facing and I think they're the issue of food is actually even more important than energy
Mean in terms of energy to be honest I mean
So we are not importing call from Russia anymore even though 50% of our call imports were from Russia right so but basically what's going to happen is we're gonna import call from other countries like Australia and so on and Russia is just going to sell somewhere else I mean the call is still
Right? And so global demanded supply for call. It's not really affected. So it's not going to be super dramatic. With oil.
It's kind of the same, right? The oil is still there. It's just you know, we'll just go somewhere else. With gas, it's more difficult because we're not having the pipeline infrastructure.
That basically will also disappear over time, right? With food, I mean, this is I think the pressing issue here.
It's basically the wall continues
I mean that will drive a food prices. I'm not expecting food shortages in Europe because we'll be able to pay. I'm going to expect food shortages in much of Africa.
Low-income countries
Civil wars and so on. Right? So I think this is basically a super important issue to to to have on the radar.
What to do about it well.
Four eight I mean the same principle right there's no way to impose price caps because there will be shortages of of certain types of of a food agreement right the only way is basically to go for four and eight.
A break for four depths so basically things we've already done after the pandemic so the principal is the same like for domestic policies it's just basically on a much bigger scale.
Robert Dorschel
We can do an yeah, maybe another round of discussion, maybe lava, and then Nikola again.
Lara Fleischer
Thanks so much.
I'm I'm really thinking about you know this really important point on compensation for a low income and middle income families.
Being important, not only for, you know, their financial security but also if we think about broader.
Cohesion and social capital
The the name of today's talk is so life is getting more expensive and if we look at the live part of this limbs this the really includes many areas of
Effects of inflation also for for other areas such as you know social exclusion and social activities we know.
I mean this this is data's probably not a surprise but there is a lot of Aberdeen that,
You know people that face financial difficulties and the unemployment have always starts more excluded from society
But they have done that has increased a lot during COVID when they are financially difficulties have increased. So, what will happen now that we have traditional inflation, right? And
What does it say about you know voting preferences in France we have election
This this weekend. Energy press initiation iron important topic.
You know the the types of measures we design and who we compensate and how has has brought our implications also for you know the type of society we will live
The political discussions are a little bit you know focus on on the most necessary and what do we do in this crisis situation but I'm kind of like missing this broader perspective on.
On on what's any type of commercial we'll do to to how we live together so I I guess my question is kind of.
Yeah how how what's such a discussion look like also when we think about compensating,
Are there any countries that have you know good social security database that have.
Manage to to design very effective measures. Are we aware of any good practice in that sense.
Assia Elgouacem
During the COVID crisis actually the way governments went about it was.
At least this is the country where I I live in so it's the closest one that I know.
There were there was a lot of support for SMS, for households, and this really helped.
Cushion the blow from the the pandemic and so the the adverse effects weren't.
Felt but not as badly as they could have been right and so it was very very important for governments to step in because.
The loss of a human capital the loss of social cohesion is costly for especially you know in the longer run this is the this is a classic don't wanna face eventually and
And so we don't want to you know mimic or to allow this to to.
You know, the crisis that we are facing today, but again,
This can be,
They are and we are able to use that to finance some of these measures but yeah for how long can we go on like this.
We we can continue to finance social programs
Good practices. I mean, there are a lot of what countries that I've seen so far.
They have leverage the preexisting programs so for instance in our countries there are means tested transfers to lower income families so what happened is that either countries increased these transfers so they
They added on the topped it up
And also they enlarge the eligibility for for these transfers so they they expanded it to.
Higher income families. So, middle class families, that yeah, that wouldn't have otherwise, a benefit, and this is
Something that happened in Greece, for instance, there is stuff. I mean, in Germany, there was a top up also.
Tool that is specific for it. So, we see like an emergency measures. They just use what's already there.
To to get to the vulnerable.
Robert Dorschel
Jens Südekum
Yeah just very briefly I mean the the problem that I'm seeing on that on that
I mean as economists we sort of have this agreement that basically go for income transfers targeted low medium income families and so I don't do price caps right the
In the general public this view is not shared so if you go for a poll and ask people in the streets would you prefer a price cap at the fuel station or would you prefer.
A transfer of €200 or whatever.
People cannot forget about the income transfer that we should receive this one of and this is the problem right I think we have to work a social scientist.
Left to do much better job to explain why these income transfers are the better policy instrument than the price caps, right
There's no gas, right? People will understand.
Difficulties understanding, right? The the issue that probably now, we need price signals, we need energy savings, and so on.
So better we better start saving energy now right and go for the competition by income transfers.
But this is kind of,
Homework for social scientists to come up with digestible stories why this is not only the economic and more efficient instrument but also basically the only instrument that can work.
Robert Dorschel
Okay, great. Maybe now we have one last question by Nikola or one reflection and then Asia maybe you can integrate your point into the answer. So, we have one last round in this small circle and then we open up and we we talk with the Lord larger audience.
Jens Südekum
Drawing on the discussion just had went somewhere.
This could be an opportunity to learn how to compensate also also for future tennis.
That's the very poor.
Thinking about the problem.
So we we discussed a lot in Germany. It's very far right now.
It's not discussed.
I've never seen that we discussed that it will impact.
Do we already have.
Yeah instead we were talking about when football.
If there is traitor version then what's the point of.
That he was going to sell his.
Cannot sell anywhere.
Discussion should be neat.
Security crisis.
We have to think about the.
Can we do it there's even you know the way we we.
Compromise. It's the bad compromise. It's gonna compromise for the scout rule but perhaps it stops the war and we're going to ever harvest the milkland that makes big difference.
Disruption of.
The food is not going to be there. The gas, the small on.
And I'm.
Dimensions and thinking about what it needs for us thinking the war from a from the endpoint and thinking economic and security possible.
Assia Elgouacem
Yeah I mean it's it's it's very difficult to think about
Different people, differently, and and and the constraints that we face especially for guys given that the infrastructure is quite localized and the
True diversions that are are it's it's it's a much more rigid system than oil for instance then.
These constraints make it very hard for us to to go all the way
But you know I I don't know if the audience has looked at the IA 10. 10 point plan
Not in foreign bargo but at least
Cutting some of the supply from Russia and that's really through not only adjusting our behaviors the lowering our like.
Thermostat and maybe yeah and also increasing our storage capacity in your etcetera. So there are,
Short-term things that we can consider to to at least reduce a bit our dependence but then of course the longer term is about,
Energy security.
You're not a small number of of fossil fuel providers and this goes beyond this war problem the war I think has just shed light on the vulnerabilities that were facing.
As a global community and and I think it we hope that it will accelerate a little bit. The energy transition.
Towards a more secure and and more diversified energy,
To comment more on on the food issue.
Jens Südekum
Yeah, I mean, again, I mean, what Nikola was saying is are we thinking about these policies and embarrassment on the global scale?
Hey Facebook no right I mean if if I follow the discussion that we were having in Germany about that how dramatic would embargo be right all of that was so how strong would the German GDP decrease
That was it right not even on European scale, right? It was basically just a germ in the bottom of what would it do for German GDP? But that's obviously not enough, right? And that discussion kind of assue optimal policy responses
Optimal support, packages,
Would be a lot of trouble by the government and frankly I'm skeptical if if that is actually possible in reality right,
I'll be basing on the trait that version is you.
I mean, it's all about gas, right? I mean, when you talk about coal and oil, it's facing just straight diverse because these are fundable commodities with gas. It's not the case. So, if we stop buying gas,
Cannot sell anywhere else because there's no pipeline up and running anywhere else. So, there
It would hurt him quite a bit. Actually, the most valuable.
Very dramatically and I think the support measures would be very difficult to orchestra,
And that's basically why my position was always we should think of ways to affect the water directly so rather than shooting ourselves on the foot with a gas and bargo we should be.
Be much more willing to supply weapons since all right but that's that was just my perspective.
Assia Elgouacem
Thank you so much for the discussion so far. Now, we really want to get in the voices, the questions, the comments by the audience. So, please feel free to continue to post questions in the chat
One member of the audience asked if inflation is so high why do companies still achieve such higher profits is it actually an inflation or is it more price gouging.
Does anybody have a take on why companies are still making such high profits.
Jens Südekum
Yeah well I've been I think it's some companies which are able to pass on these higher cost or higher prices.
Discussion about refineries, right? So, basically, the oil price was increasing
Crude all of my baby 20% fuel prices were increasing by 60% so where are the 40% gone right it ended up with oil refineries which is
So that's why basically
It's also an issue of competition policy for certain
But for other companies what I'm thinking about small companies and so on. I mean they're basically this this.
Pass passing on of cost increases to high prices. It's not possible, right? And as we know from micro 101 right with basically higher costs
For small medium enterprises on. So, this is a problem for some affirms but not for all firms.
Robert Dorschel
Okay, thank you again. Maybe one question to Asia, I discuss questions from.
What is your take on this.
Assia Elgouacem
So yeah so going back to the IA
10 point plan on oil so they have two plans one on guard a natural gas and one on oil,
Be induced by reducing speed limits but it was one of the
We we're good at that now so
Commuting at one possible,
Trying to adjust our behavior.
I hope I answered that question. Yeah. Yeah, I think you did. Thank you. Maybe we can get young vets into the discussion. Young, you had a point on wages.
Would you like to address it yourself?
Jens Südekum
Yes so I mean so far in Europe and in Germany there was no evidence for like this wage price spiral.
So far, right? So, we don't know. I mean, with inflation being at six% for the year.
And well, I mean, that's the job of trade units to try to negotiate at least at least six% raging greases.
Will that actually happen and skeptical right because I mean all the issues we have been discussing before that basically the power of of of of trade unions has decreased over
Will they actually be able to negotiate wage increases of you know six% or more?
I don't think so. So, I'm expecting a rearrange losses.
Sadly enough right one comment among basically when you really.
Fear this weight price burials right then this targeted income support measures that all of us kind of.
This target transfers to people right then basically you have an argument in the way negotiations that you should stay basically.
Come, right? And not ask for too much weight, increase because you can overwhelm, you have been compensated by government money, right? So, therefore, I think it's another argument why we should aim for this income support measures.
Robert Dorschel
Okay thank you baby I'll say you want to close us with some remark on wages.
Assia Elgouacem
Hey fully agree I I I mean I I don't I don't know haven't looked at the data but I I also think that given the inflation level that the wages might not
Completely catch up
With inflation and therefore
Both for consumers to reach those that are in need and for government finances I think we we shouldn't forget about the criteria of.
Cost effectiveness because this will matter for us now and also for the future given that
You know, that now may result in text increases later. So,
So on this yeah I say smart design is is going to be very important on.
Robert Dorschel
So, yeah, I think we, there will be a much more to discuss today. Unfortunately, the timer's already over.
I I think we have heard a lot of interesting takes on on inflation about its social and economic implications and I think we really gotta send that
What happens with with this challenge in the context of these crisis is really gonna affect how people trust institutions, how they relate to democracy, how they relate to our economic order,
And I think we we really got a sense of the pivotal moment and time that we are at right now and that the decisions we make today will really be influential for the future so,
Thank you all. Thank you. Asia, thank you again. Thank you, Nicola. Thank you Lava for discussing here with us today. Thank you to the audience,
For asking your questions for participating and we really hope to see you next week again when we dealt into another.
Plex in the context of these three crisis that are shaping this epoco ship this Titan Bender that we're discussing.
Thank you for being here today with us and to help.